This interview explores how AI is reshaping software. Guest Gokul Rajaram argues that human judgment—deciding what to build and what matters—will be the only durable skill. He favors companies with network effects (DoorDash), money flowing through them (Toast), or data moats (NetSuite), seeing them as more AI-resistant. He flags Zendesk (per-seat pricing, easily eroded by AI agents) and Slack (short-lived data) as vulnerable. He also highlights ChatGPT's advertising potential, as it combines user intent and identity data.
Gokul Rajaram, founding partner of Marathon Management, has led core advertising and product operations at Google, Facebook, Square, and DoorDash, and invested in over 700 companies. This issue explores how AI is reshaping product development, with the core thesis being: In the AI era, the only truly "future-proof" asset is human judgment, because when code generation becomes infinitely cheap, the ability to decide "what to do" and "what is worth doing" becomes the scarce resource.
Gokul Rajaram argues that product development is shifting from "deterministic software" to "non-deterministic software," fundamentally reshaping team structures and workflows.
Rajaram argues that in the AI era, the defensiveness of software companies depends on the time value of data and the depth of business integration, making Zendesk and Slack more vulnerable than Salesforce or NetSuite.
Rajaram argues that in an era where "code is infinitely cheap," stickiness comes from five scarce resources, not from the software itself.
1. Network Effects: For example, DoorDash, which consists of a three-sided network of restaurants, riders, and consumers, cannot be replicated through "vibe coding."
2. Money Flowing Through the Platform: For example, Toast (payments + POS) and Mercury (corporate banking), where the flow of funds introduces regulatory and switching costs.
3. Hardware Lock-in: For example, Toast provides hardware for free, and replacement requires physical removal and payment of fees.
4. Unique Assets: For example, Sierra possesses Bret Taylor (Chairman of OpenAI, top-tier salesperson), whose relationship network cannot be replicated.
5. Data Moat from System Records: For example, NetSuite and Salesforce, where data migration requires two years of engineering effort.
Rajaram concludes that there are only three successful paths for advertising businesses, and the shift in consumer behavior toward agent-based interfaces poses the greatest threat to existing platforms.
1. Owning first-party products and users: Examples include Google Search (high intent), Facebook (identity data), and ChatGPT (combining intent and identity data, with multi-turn natural language queries—a dream for advertisers). Rajaram emphasizes that ChatGPT possesses both Google's intent data and Facebook's identity data, and its queries are continuous rather than one-off.
2. Driving specific outcomes: For instance, AppLovin (market cap of $100 billion+), which focuses on the single outcome of mobile app installs, controls both buyers and sellers as well as middleware, and nearly dominates mobile app auctions.
3. Becoming the exclusive demand-side platform for large advertisers: For example, The Trade Desk, where companies like P&G entrust all their non-Google/Facebook display advertising budgets.
Rajaram shares his experience working with Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jack Dorsey, distilling a leadership model of "aligning superpowers with company needs."
Rajaram proposes a standardized format for the "weekly CEO email" and warns that "job-hoppers" are the biggest red flag in hiring.
1. Top of Mind (most important, accounting for 60-70% of the time): What the CEO is most focused on currently, which may involve products, business, or the team.
2. Performance Update: Key performance indicators of the company.
3. Miscellaneous: Employee recognition, customer quotes, and event announcements.
Rajaram emphasizes that "the more candid, the better," as candor encourages the team to contribute ideas. He cites Eric Schmidt's communication technique: using pure visuals for strategic presentations, because "people don't remember words, they remember feelings."
| Ticker | Analyst View | Key Data |
|---|---|---|
| Zendesk | Risk Warning (Most vulnerable to AI disruption) | Priced per seat, each seat corresponds to one customer service agent handling tickets |
| Slack | Risk Warning (Short data half-life) | Has cut off Glean's API access |
| Salesforce | Relatively Safe (System of record) | Customer record data is time-permanent |
| NetSuite | Relatively Safe (ERP system) | Replacement is "career suicide," data migration risk is extremely high |
| AppLovin | Bullish (Ad model 2) | Market cap $100B+, focused on mobile app installs |
| The Trade Desk | Neutral (Ad model 3) | Does not access Google/Facebook first-party inventory |
| ChatGPT (OpenAI) | Bullish (Ad potential) | Combines intent + identity data, multi-turn natural language queries |
| DoorDash | Bullish (Network effects) | Three-sided network of restaurants, drivers, and consumers |
| Toast | Bullish (Hardware + payment bundling) | Provides hardware for free, funds flow through the platform |
| Mercury | Bullish (Funds flow through platform) | Business banking, regulatory and switching costs |
| Sierra | Bullish (Unique asset) | Owns Bret Taylor (OpenAI Chairman) |
| Figma | Bullish (Bottom-up adoption) | Defeated Sketch through a bottom-up movement |
| Cursor | Bullish (Bottom-up adoption) | 99.9% of companies adopt via engineers bottom-up |
| Palantir | Bullish (Outcome-based sales) | Promises "free if not solved in 6 months, high price if solved" |
| Square | Neutral (Historical case) | North Star metric is GPV (payment processing volume) |
| Neutral (Historical case) | North Star metric shifted from MAU to DAU | |
| Neutral (Historical case) | Sergey cut the approval system when AdSense launched | |
| Zynga | Neutral (Historical case) | 80% of revenue came from "whale users," giving rise to Custom Audiences |
| Glean | Risk Warning (API cut off) | Slack cut off its data access |
| Clio / Filevine | Neutral (System of record) | Legal industry system of record |
| Epic | Neutral (System of record) | Healthcare industry system of record |
| Atlassian (Jira) | Neutral (System of record) | Product development data |
1. Rajaram believes that in the AI era, the only future-proof asset is human judgment. When code generation becomes infinitely cheap, the ability to decide "what to do" and "what is worth doing" becomes a scarce resource. Supporting evidence: AI slop (AI-generated junk code) is the biggest concern for every product team.
2. Rajaram argues that there are only three viable business models in advertising, and only these three. Model 1: Owning first-party products and users (Google, Facebook, ChatGPT); Model 2: Driving specific outcomes (AppLovin's mobile app installs); Model 3: Becoming the exclusive demand-side platform for large advertisers (The Trade Desk). Attempting to act as an intermediary within the Google/Facebook ecosystem is doomed to fail.
3. Rajaram judges that Zendesk and Slack are more vulnerable to AI disruption than Salesforce or NetSuite. Reason: Zendesk charges per seat, and AI agents can gradually replace human seats (a "two-way door decision"); Slack's data has a short half-life. In contrast, ERP system data is timeless, and replacing it would be "career suicide."
4. Rajaram warns that the shift in consumer behavior toward agent interfaces is the biggest threat to existing advertising platforms. If users delegate repetitive tasks (ride-hailing, food ordering) to AI agents and no longer open native apps, platforms will lose advertising exposure opportunities. He advises platforms to closely monitor behavioral changes among users who connect their ChatGPT accounts.
5. Rajaram concludes that stickiness in the AI era comes from five scarce resources: network effects (DoorDash), capital flowing through the platform (Toast, Mercury), hardware lock-in (Toast), unique assets (Sierra's Bret Taylor), and data moats from systems of record (NetSuite, Salesforce). Without these, software has an extremely short half-life.
6. Rajaram suggests that the roles of PMs and designers are converging, with the PM-to-engineer ratio shifting from 1:3 to 1:20. Design systems are already established, and AI can execute tasks based on design language. The core work of PMs is shifting toward "evals"—judging the reasonableness of non-deterministic AI outputs, sometimes using AI to evaluate AI.
7. Rajaram believes that every job requires at least 3-4 years to generate real impact. Job-hopping every 12-18 months is an "instant red flag" in hiring. He predicts that the most scarce skill in the AI era will be "becoming a functional expert and knowing how to orchestrate an army of AI agents to execute that function."
8. Rajaram argues that systems of record companies (e.g., Salesforce, NetSuite) are fighting back against AI-native companies. In 2025, Slack cut off Glean's API access. Other companies are adopting three strategies: blocking APIs, bundling their own agents for free, or charging for API calls (e.g., $2 per call). AI-native companies must ultimately build their own systems of record.