This interview is about how Web 3.0 is changing the creator economy. Trevor McFedries, creator of virtual influencer Miquela, says the internet has already made fame less dependent on record labels, and Web 3.0 lets creators sell their work directly via NFTs (digital tokens proving ownership) and earn from resales. He's optimistic about decentralization and finding 'cultural white space'—new, unexplored ideas. Key mentions: Miquela (virtual idol with millions of fans, engagement 5-7x a hit TV show); Brud (his company, planning to become a DAO where fans vote on storylines); Skrillex (musician, cited as a success in filling a cultural gap).
Trevor McFedries (founder of Brud, creator of virtual idol Miquela) discussed the impact of Web 3.0 on creators and builders during the program. Key points: the music industry is shifting from centralization to decentralization, and the internet has transformed the mechanisms of fame; Miquela, as a
Trevor McFedries (founder of Brud, creator of virtual idol Miquela) discusses the impact of Web 3.0 on creators and builders. Core thesis: The music industry is shifting from centralization to decentralization, and the internet has transformed the mechanics of fame; Miquela, as a virtual Gen Z idol with millions of followers, owes its success to narrative construction and social platform strategy. Key conclusion: Web 3.0 enables programmable art and media experiences through technologies like NFTs, giving rise to new network participants; Brud has built its own tech stack to support digital human experiences, and the most exciting frontier ahead lies in exploring cultural blank spaces and experimenting with creative containers. McFedries emphasizes that creators must embrace cross-cutting identities and adapt to the trend of decentralization.
Trevor McFedries believes that the diversity of his career stems from a combination of "deep curiosity + a Midwestern blue-collar work ethic." Transitioning from a college football player to a DJ/producer, then to a Spotify employee and founder of Brud, his core driving force was early exposure to "computers and the internet." As a poor kid from the Midwest, he could become a graphic designer or record producer through pirated software—this experience of "the internet as a level playing field" shaped his worldview.
McFedries notes that he witnessed the final gasp of the "music industry industrial complex." When he signed with Interscope in 2007, record labels still promoted artists through traditional methods (MTV, TRL, in-store signings, commercials), but the internet had already begun to change the mechanics of fame. He cites Katy Perry as an example: Perry was signed and dropped multiple times, eventually building her audience from 100 people at Warped Tour to filling the entire festival stage—"She had all the tools, all the charisma, and no one worked harder than her." McFedries emphasizes that Web 3.0 will force the music industry to overhaul outdated structures like "mechanical royalties," creating a better future for creators.
McFedries believes that the core of creating Miquela lies in identifying a "cultural white space." He cites the example of Skrillex: before Skrillex, the DJ image was that of an Ibiza mesh-shirt guy; Skrillex, transitioning from an emo rock band lead singer to a DJ, brought a rock star persona to the DJ booth, creating a new cultural phenomenon. Miquela's design logic is similar — creating a "future human in whom everyone can see themselves": she looks Dominican, Thai, or whatever the audience wants to see; she has a gap in her teeth and unconventional eyebrows, and these "otherness" traits are used to explore stories about difference.
McFedries emphasizes that narrative is the most powerful tool for changing reality. He cites data: the TV series Will & Grace is believed to have advanced the legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States. Miquela's narrative strategy is "transmedia" — the story unfolds primarily on social media, allowing fans to join at any point. He draws on advice from J.J. Abrams: "Don't write too far ahead; leave room for iteration, like software — propose a hypothesis, release it to the world, see the reaction, and then iterate."
Key data: Miquela has "millions of fans," and her daily engagement volume is equivalent to "5–7 times that of a popular cable TV show."
McFedries argues that the core breakthrough of Web 3.0 lies in "programmable art and media experiences." The traditional Web 2.0 model follows a pattern of "create media → build a fan base → sell products to fans." Web 3.0 allows creators to directly sell the media itself (e.g., NFTs) and permanently participate in secondary sales. He proposes a hypothetical example: Glenn Greenwald could create a "Glenn token," granting holders media access. Fans would not only recommend content based on its quality but also promote it due to financial incentives (token appreciation), creating a dual engine of "traditional network effects + financial incentives."
McFedries notes that NFTs create a coexistence of "personal ownership and universal accessibility." He cites Fred Ehrsam’s observation: "It turns out people are more interested in art than in finance." He predicts the next phase is DAOs (Decentralized Autonomous Organizations), where people pool capital and cultural acumen to collectively address major issues. Brud plans to transition into BrudDAO, allowing fans to vote on character narrative directions via tokens, turning a "TV show watched on social media" into an "interactive adventure game with global fan participation."
McFedries warns that current NFT art remains in the "old format transplant" stage (e.g., JPEGs). What is truly exciting is "programmable art"—dynamic works that respond to external variables (weather, sports results, etc.). This will redefine the concept of a "visual artist," attracting programmers and systems thinkers to the field.
McFedries emphasizes that the best media companies are "tech companies disguised as media companies." Brud had to build its own technology stack because traditional CG/3D tools are designed for long-cycle projects with "3–5 years and hundreds of millions of dollars in budgets," whereas Brud needs to create content "in three hours at Instagram resolution." They developed middleware and software to connect existing tools, striking a balance between narrative quality and production precision—"The most important thing is always telling a good story; fans will forgive technical flaws if the story is compelling enough."
McFedries reveals that Brud’s biggest challenge is "handling sensitive narratives on social media." Traditional media (e.g., Grey’s Anatomy) has established frameworks for addressing topics like family loss, but on social media, such content appears between latte photos and bikini shots, requiring judgment on "how far to go." Miquela has publicly supported positions such as Black Lives Matter and sex workers' rights—"Traditional media companies would avoid these because they are controversial, but we believe it is necessary to use the platform to amplify important messages."
McFedries notes that Miquela serves as a "heat shield" for the creative team. Many talented but introverted or vulnerable creators express themselves through the character of Miquela, avoiding the risk of being "torn apart" as public figures—"We may have prevented our team members from experiencing a Britney Spears-style parking lot head-shaving moment."
| Position | Guest Stance | Key Data |
|---|---|---|
| Miquela (Virtual Influencer under Brud) | Bullish (Core Product) | Millions of followers; daily engagement 5–7 times that of popular cable TV shows |
| Brud (Company) | Bullish (Under Construction) | Plans to transition into BrudDAO; self-built tech stack supporting digital human experiences |
| Katy Perry (Artist) | Neutral (Case Reference) | Grew from an audience of 100 to the Super Bowl halftime show |
| Skrillex (Artist) | Positive (Cultural White Space Case) | Brought rock star persona to the DJ booth |
| Banks (Artist, formerly managed by McFedries) | Positive (Data-Driven Case) | Fan base overlaps with listeners of Trey Songz, The Weeknd, and Drake |
| Spotify (Former Employer) | Positive (Learning Experience) | Learned lean startup model: build–release–feedback–iterate |
| Beeple (NFT Artist) | Neutral (Case Reference) | NFTs sold for millions of dollars |
| Glenn Greenwald (Hypothetical Case) | Neutral (Web 3.0 Model Hypothesis) | Hypothetical creation of a "Glenn token" |
1. "Don't DJ for the sake of DJing, don't write for the sake of writing—DJ for the people on the dance floor, write for the readers." (McFedries) — This is the core principle he distilled from his music career: creators should create for their audience, not for their peers. This philosophy runs through all his projects.
2. "Cultural blank space" theory: Find a "subculture that needs a rock star personality to break into the mainstream." (McFedries) — Skrillex brought an emo rock star persona to the DJ booth, and Miquela brought "otherness" into the mainstream—both are practical applications of this theory.
3. "Narrative is the most powerful tool for changing reality." (McFedries) — Citing data on how Will & Grace advanced the legalization of same-sex marriage in the U.S., he highlights the social influence of media narratives; Miquela's goal is to create a "global-scale Will & Grace phenomenon."
4. "Web 3.0 allows creators to achieve both 'freedom of information' and 'scarcity ownership' simultaneously." (McFedries) — NFTs resolve a long-standing dilemma for creators: media can be universally accessible, while individuals can own and trade scarce assets.
5. "The best media companies are tech companies disguised as media companies." (McFedries) — Using Disney as an example, its Imagineers developed powerful storytelling tools; Brud built its own tech stack to support content creation at "internet speed."
6. "Miquela acts as a heat shield for the creative team." (McFedries) — Vulnerable and sensitive creators express themselves through virtual characters, avoiding the attacks that come with being a public figure; this may serve as a mechanism to prevent a "Britney Spears-style breakdown."
7. "Gen Z has abandoned the 'American Dream' narrative—they just want to make money as fast as possible and then live an easy life." (McFedries) — He observes that TikTok stars no longer pretend to have romantic skills; they straightforwardly say, "I'm an influencer, I want to make money and invest," a stark contrast to the "brand-building" mindset of Millennials.
8. "Embrace your differences; don't try to pitch yourself like a Stanford GSB graduate." (McFedries) — When pitching to Sequoia, his initial attempt to imitate the typical entrepreneur image failed; later, by telling his story as his authentic self (with a non-traditional background), he secured investment.