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Colossus (Invest Like the Best / Business Breakdowns)Podcast9 Apr 2019Source: traffic.libsyn.comHost: Patrick O'Shaughnessy

Geoffrey Batt – The Nature of Transformational Returns - [Invest Like the Best, EP.128]

In plain words

This is about how to get 25-50x returns in a place like Iraq, where everyone thinks it's a disaster. Manager Batt says you need 10-15 years of patience, and most funds can't handle that because investors pull money during bad times. He only takes money from rich people who can decide for themselves and don't care about looking stupid, so when ISIS attacked, his fund actually got more money. Key picks: Baghdad Softdrinks (Pepsi bottler in Iraq, revenue up 3x in 10 years but stock only doubled, so cheap); AsiaCell (telecom, 33% free cash flow yield); Iraqi banks (10-15% dividend yield, trade at 1/5 of book value).

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Geoffrey Batt shared on the Invest Like the Best podcast how to achieve transformative returns in extremely difficult markets, such as the Iraqi stock market. Through his firm Euphrates, he manages a significant amount of capital in Iraqi equities, emphasizing that in highly volatile and illiquid ma

~10 min full read · 9 sections
Deep Analysis

This Issue at a Glance

Geoffrey Batt is the founder of the Euphrates Fund, which focuses on investing in the Iraqi stock market. This issue primarily explores how to achieve transformative returns (25-50x) in extremely difficult markets. Batt's core thesis: obtaining transformative returns requires 10-15 years of patience, and the fund structure must be able to withstand a "decade of no returns" volatility period—the vast majority of institutional investors are structurally unable to do so.


Theme 1: The "Impossible Trinity" of Transformative Returns — Time, Volatility, and Fund Structure

Batt argues that achieving transformative returns faces a structural contradiction: the market requires 10–15 years to complete a revaluation, yet most fund structures cannot support such a time horizon.

He cites the post-war Japanese market as an example: it generated approximately 100,000% USD returns from 1950 to 1989, but included a roughly ten-year period of no market gains. "In the West, if you were constructive on Japanese equities, people would question your sanity." This prolonged period of zero returns was accompanied by significant political and economic volatility, requiring investors to "see through fear and emotion."

Key data chain:

  • Japanese market: ~100,000% return over about 40 years, but with a ~10-year stagnation in between
  • Other markets: 3,000–5,000% returns are also typically accompanied by long periods of no gains

Batt points out that the structure of most funds makes such investing nearly impossible:

  • Mutual funds report performance daily; hedge funds may report every six months or annually
  • LPs (limited partners), if they themselves need to report short-term performance to their own investors, will withdraw at the first sign of trouble
  • The result: most funds are pro-cyclical — capital flows in when performance is good and out when it is poor, forcing selling at the very moment when buying is most warranted

Theme 2: Building an LP Base in Reverse — Creating a "Counter-Cyclical Fund"

Batt’s core innovation: By selecting specific types of LPs, he transformed the fund from pro-cyclical to counter-cyclical.

He realized that institutional investors are unsuitable for this strategy for three reasons:

1. Investment committee decision-making: Committee members face immense career risk — "If you go to the committee and propose Iraq, they look at you like you’re crazy."

2. Asymmetric incentives: There is no extra reward for investment success, but failure can cost you your job.

3. Lack of authority: Decision-makers need to consult others and cannot make independent judgments.

Batt’s strategy: Only target high-net-worth individuals and family offices that meet three conditions:

  • Have authority (they can decide whether to invest on their own)
  • Do not care about looking foolish
  • Tend to increase rather than reduce positions during market panic

Results validated: When news broke that ISIS had captured Mosul, the Iraqi stock market plunged, yet Batt’s fund saw net inflows — his LPs actually added to their positions. "I have a counter-cyclical fund, while most funds are pro-cyclical."

Implications for LPs: Batt introduced the concept of "adjacent risk" — LPs must not only evaluate the fund manager but also consider who the other LPs are. If one large LP accounts for more than half of the fund, its withdrawal could destroy the entire fund.


Theme 3: A Framework for Discovering Opportunities — The Vast Gap Between Perception and Reality

Batt learned a core framework from his mentor Dan Cloud (co-founder of Firebird Funds): seek out places that "everyone thinks are absolutely terrible," then test whether that negative perception aligns with reality.

The 2007 Iraq Case:

  • Negative Perception: Mainstream media portrayed it as a "failed state" and "hell of civil war"
  • Reality Data:
  • Oil production was increasing (something a failed state typically cannot achieve)
  • CPI inflation fell from 75% a year earlier to 5–10%
  • The currency appreciated against the U.S. dollar
  • Civilian deaths dropped from 3,000 per month to 200

On-the-Ground Verification: During his first visit to Baghdad, Batt observed "people playing tennis," "children kicking soccer balls," and "women window shopping" — a picture completely at odds with the "hell" narrative.

Batt’s Critique of Mainstream Media and Experts:

  • Media cannot convey complexity and can only offer "sound bites"
  • Experts have no "skin in the game" and face no consequences for being wrong
  • Think-tank experts face political risk — a positive view on Iraq would get them labeled as "neoconservatives"

Conclusion: "You can only rely on yourself and your own research."


Theme 4: The "Voting Machine" Dilemma in the Iraqi Market — Fundamentals Grow but Stock Prices Lag

Batt points out that the Iraqi market remains in what Graham called the "voting machine" stage, rather than the "weighing machine" stage — prices have yet to reflect fundamentals.

Case study: Baghdad Softdrinks (Pepsi bottler and distributor in Iraq)

  • Revenue has grown approximately threefold over the past 10 years
  • Operating cash flow per share compound annual growth rate of approximately 20%
  • Yet the stock price has only doubled

Comparison: If this company were in Pakistan or Nigeria, it might trade at 25–30 times earnings. Nigeria faces Boko Haram issues, declining oil production, and lower GDP per capita than Iraq, yet investors are excited about Nigerian consumer goods companies.

Batt's frustration: "We are stuck in the voting machine stage — local investors care more about rights issues and stock dividends than company fundamentals."

Current market conditions (2019):

Metric 2008–2009 2019
Trading days 3 days per week 5 days per week (still only 2 hours)
Total market cap Approximately $1.8 billion Approximately $5–6 billion
Investable companies Approximately 5–10 More, but still limited
Custody No third-party custody Still no third-party custody (exchange self-operated)
Foreign investors Almost none Interest beginning to emerge

Valuation levels (2019):

  • Stocks trade at 4 times real earnings
  • Bank stocks: 10–15% dividend yield, trading at 1/5 of tangible book value
  • AsiaCell (telecom): Enterprise value of approximately $1 billion, EBITDA of approximately $700 million, free cash flow yield of approximately 33%

Theme 5: Iraq's "Stress Test" — Crises Validate the Country's Resilience

Batt believes that Iraq has experienced two major crises (civil war and ISIS), yet emerged "unscathed" each time, which has actually strengthened investment confidence.

Key Chain of Events:

1. 2003: Regime change

2. 2006–2008: Civil war

3. 2013–2014: ISIS rises, occupying about one-third of the country

4. 2017–2018: ISIS defeated, legitimate democratic elections held

5. 2018: Ruling party loses the prime minister position, peaceful transfer of power

Batt's analogy: "It's like a bank that went through the 2008 financial crisis without needing TARP funds — now you know this bank is very resilient."

Outlook for the future:

  • Over the next 5–10 years, the companies held may "be several orders of magnitude larger in scale"
  • The key lies in P/E revaluation — moving from 4x to 10x alone can generate enormous returns
  • Even without extreme revaluation, fundamental growth combined with moderate revaluation can deliver a "fantastic return"

Theme 6: Advice for Young Investors — Challenging the Mainstream Narrative

Batt’s advice for young investors:

1. Look for places where “everyone thinks it’s terrible”

2. Use data to test whether the negative perception is accurate

3. Propose an “alternative model” to explain reality

4. Consider democratic transitions in the Middle East — “Democratic transitions are always accompanied by large-scale violence. It happened in the U.S., it happened in Western Europe, and it may happen in the Middle East as well.”

Current opportunity: Batt believes there may be more opportunities now than in 2007, as the entire Middle East region is shrouded in negative sentiment — the Arab Spring, the Syrian civil war, Yemen, and U.S.-Iran tensions.


Mentioned Positions

Position Analyst View Key Data
Baghdad Softdrinks (Pepsi Iraq Bottler) Bullish (Largest Holding) Revenue grew ~3x over 10 years; operating cash flow per share CAGR of 20%; share price only doubled; would trade at 25-30x P/E if in Pakistan/Nigeria
AsiaCell (Telecom) Bullish Enterprise value ~$1 billion; EBITDA ~$700 million; free cash flow yield ~33%; dividend yield 14.5%
Iraqi Bank Stocks (Unnamed) Bullish 10-15% dividend yield; trading at 1/5 tangible book value; strong liquidity

Judgments Worth Remembering

1. Batt on Fund Structure: "I view funds like pre-Depression banks—the stability of the LP base determines whether a fund can successfully capture transformative returns." — By accepting only high-net-worth individuals and family offices with agency and no fear of looking foolish, he has built a rare counter-cyclical fund.

2. Batt on Perception vs. Reality: "Mainstream media cannot convey complexity, experts have no skin in the game—you can only rely on yourself and your own research." — In 2007, Iraqi data (inflation falling from 75% to 5-10%, currency appreciation, death toll dropping from 3,000 to 200) completely contradicted the media narrative.

3. Batt on the "Voting Machine" Dilemma: "We are stuck in the voting machine phase—local investors care more about rights issues and stock dividends than company fundamentals." — Baghdad Softdrinks has 20% CAGR in operating cash flow per share, yet its stock price has only doubled, while Nigeria, with worse fundamentals, enjoys higher valuations.

4. Batt on National Resilience: "Iraq has endured two major crises (civil war and ISIS) and emerged intact each time—it is like a bank that survived 2008 without needing TARP." — Crises actually serve to validate the information.

5. Batt on Investment Approach: "Look for places everyone thinks are terrible, then use data to test whether that perception is accurate." — This is the core framework he learned from his mentor Dan Cloud (co-founder of Firebird Fund).

6. Batt on LP Selection: "If you sit on an investment committee and propose Iraq, they will look at you like you are crazy—even if the investment succeeds, you get no extra reward, but failure could cost you your job." — The structural incentives of institutional investors are incompatible with transformative returns.

7. Batt on Adjacent Risk: "LPs must not only look at the fund manager but also at who the other LPs are—if one large LP accounts for more than half the fund, its withdrawal could destroy the entire fund." — This is a critical issue most LPs overlook.

8. Batt on Current Valuations: "Iraqi stocks trade at 4x real P/E, bank stocks at 1/5 tangible book value—cheaper than in 2009, while the companies are stronger." — Although the market has grown from an $1.8 billion market cap to $5-6 billion, valuations remain highly attractive.