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Colossus (Invest Like the Best / Business Breakdowns)Podcast26 Sep 2023Source: joincolossus.comHost: Patrick O'Shaughnessy

Jack Altman & Miles Grimshaw - Building and Investing in Lattice - [Invest Like the Best, EP.345]

In plain words

This is the story of Lattice, an HR software company. Founder Jack Altman and investor Miles Grimshaw explain how it grew from 2015 to serving 5,000+ companies. Their key insight: Lattice succeeded by targeting mid-sized firms (50-2,000 employees) instead of competing with Workday for big enterprises. A critical early bet was putting 5 of only 7 engineers on a second product (employee engagement surveys) when revenue was just $3 million. They built a community (like a Slack group) for HR pros instead of buying ads. Key companies: Lattice (their own, now valued in billions), Workday (enterprise HR software, used as comparison), CultureAmp (employee surveys, once much bigger than Lattice).

AI SummaryAI-generated · may contain errors · verify against the original

At a Glance This episode of Invest Like the Best features Lattice co-founder Jack Altman and Benchmark partner Miles Grimshaw, who explore the building and scaling of HR software platform Lattice from both operator and investor perspectives. Key takeaways: Founded in 2015, Lattice now serves over 5,

~10 min full read · 8 sections
Deep Analysis

This Issue at a Glance

Jack Altman (Co-founder & CEO of Lattice) and Miles Grimshaw (Partner at Benchmark, early Lattice investor and board member) review Lattice's journey from its founding in 2015 to serving over 5,000 companies with a multi-billion-dollar valuation, from both operator and investor perspectives. Core thesis: In 2018, when Lattice had only ~$3 million in ARR and 7 engineers, it allocated 5 of them to develop a second product (employee engagement surveys)—this counterintuitive "multi-product suite" strategy, rather than moving upmarket to enterprise clients, ultimately became its structural advantage.


Theme 1: Market Selection is the Overwhelming Variable; Lattice Bet on a "Zero-Dollar Market"

Jack Altman argues that the market is the overwhelming variable determining a company's success or failure, and Lattice's success began with identifying a "zero-dollar market."

  • Historical Context: Around 2012, traditional performance reviews faced widespread backlash (Adobe, Goldman Sachs, and other large companies announced their elimination), but completely abolishing them led to chaos. By 2016, a group of HR practitioners began advocating for a new model of "lightweight, continuous feedback," yet no mature software tools existed. Lattice initially mistakenly developed OKR software, only to find no one willing to pay.
  • Key Turning Point: An HR leader at a client company explicitly stated: "If you can build a performance review tool, I'll pay you on Monday." — This was the first time Lattice heard a signal of "willingness to prepay an annual fee." Jack concluded: "Going to market is how you discover product-market fit, not by building in isolation and then searching for a market."
  • Market Positioning: Miles notes that the mid-market (50-2000 person companies) had long been neglected — Workday and similar products target large enterprises, while small companies only have fragmented point solutions. Lattice chose to serve this "underappreciated" customer segment rather than competing upward with Workday.

Theme 2: Multi-Product Suite Strategy — An Early "Bet" Rather Than a "Safe Move"

Jack Altman and Miles Grimshaw agree that when Lattice had only about $3 million in ARR and 7 engineers, deciding to allocate 5 of them to a second product (employee engagement surveys) was the company's most critical early decision.

  • Decision Logic: Jack recalls that the single performance management product quickly hit linear growth, unable to sustain the long-term vision. Miles' framework was: "You either sell a single product to every company (meaning moving upmarket to enterprise), or you build more products for the same customer base." He judged that Jack's strengths lay in product, brand, and community building, not enterprise sales, so he recommended the multi-product route.
  • Data Support: Customer demand for the second product (engagement surveys) was extremely clear — HR leaders described it as "wiping mud off the windshield," finally allowing them to see employees' true feelings. This product shared the same buyer (the HR leader) as performance management and had a low technical barrier.
  • Risk and Cost: Jack admits that during the 9 months in 2018 when most engineering resources were poured into the new product, the company's growth became linear. "You can never know if growth would have been faster if all 7 engineers had optimized the core product." Ultimately, however, after the suite strategy launched in late 2018, win rates improved significantly, and market feedback was like a "vacuum cleaner" actively pulling in customers.

Theme 3: Community Building Replaces Hard Selling — Building a "Awareness Flywheel"

Jack Altman argues that early Lattice allocated 90% of its marketing budget to brand and community, rather than performance ads or sales leads, because "nobody knew what Lattice was; asking for a demo directly was unrealistic."

  • Mechanism Breakdown: Lattice's strategy was to "hold the umbrella, but not grab the microphone" — amplifying the voices of HR leaders already advocating for new performance management concepts through high-quality video interviews and blogs, rather than positioning itself as a thought leader. The company built a Slack community exclusively for HR practitioners (now about 20,000 members), offering structured channels (compensation, recruiting, performance, etc.) with light moderation.
  • Data Chain: Jack emphasizes that the goal was not to drive individual customer conversions, but to "ensure every HR practitioner who might buy Lattice sees us 7 times in 7 different scenarios" — including billboards, podcasts, blogs, friend referrals, dinners, etc. This "broad awareness" strategy lowered customer acquisition costs and smoothed subsequent sales.
  • Miles' Addition: He believes that all B2B SaaS is essentially "simple CRUD applications," and what customers truly buy is "a way of working, a philosophy of success." Community and brand convey this philosophy, not a list of features.

Theme 4: Transparency in Founder-Investor Relationships and "Respect Over Friendliness"

Miles Grimshaw proposes that he prefers to "respect founders" rather than "be friendly to founders" — the former implies a responsibility to challenge, propose alternatives, and make implicit trade-offs explicit.

  • Disagreement Case: In the summer of 2018 (during Series B fundraising), Miles believed the company had not yet reached the fundraising threshold (about $3 million ARR, linear growth) and suggested waiting 9 months; Jack thought they should try at that time. Ultimately, they "disagreed and committed" — Jack pushed forward with fundraising, which ultimately failed. However, this failure fostered a "wartime" culture within the company, forcing the team to think about "how to be self-sufficient if we can never raise funds again," ultimately making the company stronger.
  • Transparency Principle: Miles believes that the interaction between investors and founders should be like "planning an adventure" rather than "getting a colonoscopy" — even if the investor ultimately does not invest, the founder should leave with clearer thinking. Jack adds that a key lesson he learned is: "Until you have a Term Sheet, everything is a 'no'" — investors have their own duties and interests, and founders should not over-interpret early enthusiasm.

Theme 5: From Startup to IPO — Financial Discipline and "Genetic" Setting

Jack Altman and Miles Grimshaw discuss that for Lattice to go from its current scale (multi-billion dollar valuation) to becoming a truly large public company, it needs to set its "genes" in advance.

  • Financial Framework: Jack proposes a reverse-engineering model — assuming a target of 20% free cash flow margin, deducting R&D (about 30%), G&A (about 16%), sales and marketing expenses, and customer success costs from revenue leaves extremely limited room. This forces the team to think: How high does net dollar retention need to be? How short does the CAC payback period need to be? How large does ACV need to be?
  • Key Conclusion: Since acquiring new customers is far more expensive than selling to existing ones, Lattice must increase the purchase depth of existing customers through a multi-product suite. This explains why the company is now launching HRIS (Human Resources Information System) — as the core system of record for employee data, connecting all other modules.
  • Miles' "Gene" Perspective: He believes that a company's early "genes" determine its long-term possibilities — including customer stickiness, market share, and industry margins. The HR software space already has numerous public companies (Paycom, Paylocity, etc.), proving that this track can produce large companies. The key is whether the founder truly desires to walk this path and draws energy from it.

Mentioned Positions

Position Guest Sentiment Key Data
Lattice Bullish (core discussion) Founded in 2015, serving over 5,000 companies, valued at billions of dollars; ~$3M ARR and 7 engineers in 2018; now ~600 employees
Workday Neutral (as a comparison reference) Founded in 2004, HR software for large enterprises
CultureAmp Neutral (as a comparison reference) Focused on employee engagement surveys, once much larger than Lattice
Reflektive Neutral (as a comparison reference) Once raised $100M, eventually sold for ~$7-10M
Teespring Neutral (Jack's former employer) E-commerce company Jack joined in 2013
HubSpot Neutral (as a multi-product case) Started building a sales product when ARR was $50-70M
Adobe Neutral (as a multi-product case) Launched Illustrator, Photoshop, and other products within the first 5 years
Square Neutral (as a multi-product case) Began developing a consumer wallet app within 2 years of launching Square

Judgments Worth Remembering

1. Jack Altman: “The market is the overwhelming variable.” — Lattice’s success began with identifying a “zero-billion-dollar market” (HR professionals craving a new performance management model), rather than technological or product innovation. Market growth can mask many mistakes, while a wrong market choice can kill every effort.

2. Miles Grimshaw: “If you want your company to truly matter, you ultimately need to reach $100M ARR with 50% growth.” — This goal seemed absurd when ARR was only $2M, but it forced the team to think: either sell a single product to all companies (moving upmarket into the enterprise) or build more products for the same customer base. Lattice chose the latter.

3. Jack Altman: “Go-to-market is how you discover product-market fit.” — Lattice initially developed OKR software that no one paid for, but through customer interactions, it uncovered the real demand for performance management tools. Do not build in isolation and then search for a market; instead, discover the market through the act of selling itself.

4. Miles Grimshaw: “I prefer ‘respect the founder’ over ‘be founder-friendly.’” — Respect means having the responsibility to challenge, propose alternatives, and make implicit trade-offs explicit. Being friendly may mean avoiding disagreements, while respect demands honest confrontation with difficult issues.

5. Jack Altman: “Until you have a Term Sheet, everything is a ‘no.’” — The failed Series B fundraising in 2018 taught him that investor enthusiasm does not equal commitment. Founders should not over-interpret early positive signals and must remain clear-headed.

6. Jack Altman: “Hold the umbrella, but don’t take the microphone.” — Lattice’s community strategy was not to position itself as a thought leader, but to amplify the voices of HR professionals already advocating new ideas. This built trust and lowered customer acquisition costs.

7. Miles Grimshaw: “The interaction between investors and founders should feel like planning an adventure, not getting a colonoscopy.” — Even if an investment is not made, the founder should walk away with clearer thinking. Good investors help founders examine risks and resources, rather than subjecting them to a painful review.

8. Jack Altman: “The core advantage of a multi-product suite strategy is lowering customer acquisition costs.” — Selling new products to existing customers costs far less than acquiring new ones. In an era where software construction costs are falling but acquisition costs are rising, this structural advantage is critical.