This episode covers Sky Mavis, the company behind Axie Infinity, a 'play-to-earn' game where players earn tokens (SLP) by playing, not just spending. The founder says Axie competes with 'work' for the 1.9 billion people earning under $500/month—it just needs to be more fun than a job. Key holdings: Axie Infinity (1.7M daily players, $370M monthly revenue at peak); AXS token (governance token, 270M cap, ~$4B market cap); SLP token (earned by playing, used to breed new Axies, but price fluctuates with supply/demand).
Sky Mavis is the developer of the NFT game Axie Infinity, whose "play-to-earn" model reshapes the incentive mechanism between game creators and players through blockchain. Axie Infinity has demonstrated remarkable scaling speed: revenue surged from $100,000 in January 2021 to $190 million in July, a
The guests on this episode are Aleksander Larsen, co-founder of Sky Mavis, and early investor Stephen McKeon (partner at Collab+Currency). The main thread revolves around Axie Infinity's "play-to-earn" economic model, NFT asset system, Ronin sidechain infrastructure, and long-term sustainability. Aleksander Larsen argues that Axie's core competitive advantage is not competing with Fortnite on "fun," but competing with "work"—it only needs to be more engaging than work to tap into the 1.9 billion internet users worldwide with monthly incomes below $500.
Aleksander Larsen argues that traditional game studios capture all the value within digital ecosystems, while Axie's play-to-earn model redistributes that value back to players.
In traditional games, players invest time without being able to monetize in-game assets. Axie, by contrast, allows players to generate resources (such as SLP) through gameplay and sell them on the open market to buyers in need, thereby converting time directly into income. Larsen emphasizes: "Every SLP is the product of players' sweat and joy—we as a company do not sell these tokens."
Key data support:
Stephen McKeon adds an investment perspective: "Axie isn't competing with Fortnite on 'fun'; it's competing with work. It only needs to be more fun than work." He cites data: 1.9 billion internet users globally earn less than $500 per month—this is Axie's core target market.
Larsen breaks down the Axie economy into three core asset layers, each with distinct functions and incentive mechanisms.
Each Axie has a gene sequence stored on the blockchain, determining body parts and battle attributes (HP, morale, speed, etc.). Players can breed new Axies by spending SLP and AXS. Each Axie has a breeding limit to prevent inflation. Currently, approximately 5 million Axies exist, approaching the supply-demand equilibrium point where "three Axies are needed to play."
SLP is an in-game token generated solely through actual player activity. It is used to breed new Axies. Larsen emphasizes: "SLP is more real than fiat currency—fiat is created out of thin air, while SLP requires players to invest time."
The total supply is capped at 270 million tokens. Sky Mavis channels 100% of game revenue into the treasury, which is governed by AXS holders. Holders can earn rewards through staking and completing weekly tasks (e.g., playing games, tweeting). Larsen draws an analogy: "AXS is the constitution of Axie—like founding a nation, we need to gradually decentralize power to the community."
Comparison Data:
| Asset Type | Function | Acquisition Method | Supply Mechanism |
|---|---|---|---|
| Axie (NFT) | Game character, combat, breeding | Purchase from player market / breeding | Generated via breeding, with a limit per Axie |
| SLP (Token) | Breeding fuel, in-game transactions | Generated only through gameplay | Player-generated, no hard cap |
| AXS (Token) | Governance, staking, treasury allocation | Exchange purchase / leaderboard rewards | Total supply 270 million, released over 4–10 years |
Larsen explains why Sky Mavis had to build its own sidechain: no existing solution could simultaneously meet the high-frequency trading demands of gaming and the requirement for low fees.
Historical context: Axie was initially built on Ethereum, but the congestion and high gas fees during the CryptoKitties era proved Ethereum unsuitable for gaming scenarios. The team tried Loom Network, but it later pivoted to the healthcare sector. The final conclusion was: "No one understands the problems we face better than we do."
Characteristics of the Ronin sidechain:
Key data: The Axie ecosystem has seen over 300,000 unique traders in the past 30 days, compared to just 15,000–20,000 across the entire Ethereum NFT market over the same period. Larsen believes: "Ronin's innovations will eventually flow back to Ethereum—we are not replacing it, but opening up new users for it."
Stephen McKeon adds: "The launch of Ronin is a core thesis for the investment—once transaction fees drop from several dollars to a few cents, an explosion in economic activity is inevitable."
Larsen admits that Axie's biggest risks are smart contract vulnerabilities and regulatory uncertainty, not competition.
Larsen uses SLP as an example to illustrate the complexity: SLP is only used for breeding, and breeding also consumes AXS. When the price of AXS rises, its "siphoning" ratio may climb to 80%, dragging down the price of SLP. The team faces a dilemma:
Larsen's principle: "We follow the economy rather than lead it. We can make quick economic adjustments, but it takes time to observe the effects."
1. Smart Contract Risk (most concerning): "A known unknown; the worst case is billions of dollars in losses. No innovation means no risk, but also no reward."
2. Regulatory Risk: The Philippines has already begun considering taxing players. Larsen takes a pragmatic stance: "We still live in the physical world; pay taxes when due."
3. Competition Risk (least concerning): "Digimon came after Pokemon, but people remember Pokemon. Axie is the first mover, with first-mover advantage and emotional connection."
Larsen describes the ultimate form of Axie: not a single game, but a platform akin to Roblox, where Axie NFTs can be used across different games.
Community developers have already leveraged open APIs to create Flappy Axie (similar to Flappy Bird) and Axie Sushi (a racing game). Interestingly, some Axies that perform poorly in the combat game excel in the racing game due to their genetic traits.
Land System: Approximately 96,800 plots of land, functioning similarly to a "master tape"—landowners can build sub-dimensional games, attract players to engage on their land, and capture value. Larsen acknowledges: "Nothing is fully clear yet, but this is the direction."
IP Licensing Strategy: Free for non-commercial use; commercial use requires a licensing agreement with Sky Mavis (e.g., if a single Axie generates over $10,000 in revenue).
| Position | Guest Stance | Key Data |
|---|---|---|
| Axie Infinity (Sky Mavis) | Bullish (dual role as founder/investor) | 1.7M+ daily active users, $370M revenue in August, $1.8B market trading volume |
| AXS Token | Bullish (core value capture tool) | Total supply of 270M, market cap ~$4B (at time of show) |
| SLP Token | Neutral (needs to balance inflation and incentives) | Produced solely through gameplay, tied to breeding demand |
| Ethereum | Bullish (infrastructure layer) | Ronin bridged assets 1:1 pegged, Ethereum NFT market with 15k–20k monthly traders |
| Ronin Sidechain | Bullish (growth catalyst) | 300k+ unique traders in 30 days, fees reduced to sub-cent levels |
| Loom Network | Neutral (historical partner, pivoted away) | Previously used for early sidechains, later team pivoted to healthcare |
1. "Axie is not competing with Fortnite for fun, but with work" (Stephen McKeon) — There are 1.9 billion internet users worldwide with monthly incomes below $500. Axie only needs to be more engaging than work to tap into this market.
2. "Every SLP is more real than fiat currency — fiat is created out of thin air, while SLP requires players to spend time" (Aleksander Larsen) — The only way to generate SLP is through actual gameplay, which is the core mechanism of "proof of gameplay."
3. "We follow the economy rather than lead it" (Larsen) — Economic adjustments need to be swift, but observing their effects requires patience. The team prioritizes ensuring servers can handle growth over pursuing an optimal SLP price.
4. "Axie is an island, and you still need to swim to it" (Larsen) — The current user experience still involves over ten steps of friction. The free version, Axie Origin, is expected to launch in 6–7 months and will be the true entry point for mainstream users.
5. "Smart contract risk is a known unknown — without innovation, there is no risk, but also no reward" (Larsen) — The team collaborates with top-tier auditing firms and white-hat hackers but acknowledges that risk cannot be fully eliminated.
6. "Assets exist independently of the interface" (McKeon) — This is the core innovation of crypto: players own Axie NFTs and can use them across different games, unlike in Fortnite where assets are locked within a single platform.
7. "We are like nation-builders — we need a constitution, and we need to gradually decentralize power" (Larsen) — The principle of progressive decentralization: initially limit the scope of community decision-making, and gradually expand community autonomy as the core team's capacity contracts.
8. "Axie will bring people who have never had a bank account into the global economy" (Larsen) — Hundreds of thousands of players in the Philippines already rely on Axie to support their families. This impact is more significant than any price movement.